Harriet

[Penelope]

I am really at my wit's end.... haven't posted much about this problem on here as I had convinced myself I could sort it out.
Harriet attacked Buffy some while ago and hurt her quite badly (I posted about that). Since then she has had a go at Poppy and hurt her leg, and a couple of times she has gone for Buffy again. Buffy injures really easily and I had tried to tell myself that Harriet wasn't that bad, it was just that Buffy seems to have very thin skin and her skin tears easily.
Harriet has never gone for Josie or Suki (Suki is definitely top dog and can stop the rest of them with just a look)
I was beginning to think that there wasn't a particular trigger that made Harriet react like this and was beginning to despair. We did wonder if it was hormonal...... Then all of a sudden things improved and only last weekend Trev and I commented on how she is being much, much better recently.
We spoke too soon.

Today whilst out for a walk, I went to get a treat out of my pocket and 2 fell on the floor, so both spaniels went after them. Harriet then attacked Buffy and for the first time ever, Buffy fought back (which in a way was good because it meant she didn't get hurt, but in another way, I don't want her to fight with Harriet!) I separated them by grabbing Harriet and lifting her up - with Buffy still hanging on growling. Then they were apart.
We have considered putting a muzzle on her when out to prevent any more problems, but then she couldn't play with her ball, but at least she couldn't hurt Buffy or Poppy.
Tonight Trev and I were in the front room with Josie and the other dogs were in the dining room. Trev came out and there was a horrendous fight - it transpired Suki had pinched an empty yoghurt pot out of the bin (she is the only one tall enough so it must have been her) and Harriet was playing with it. As Josie came through, Harriet went for her (presumably protecting "her" yoghurt pot!) Josie is not at all nervous and went back at Harriet full on (Josie is a lab x springer and very strong) Trev managed to grab Harriet out of Josie's reach but this is now reaching a point where we are tiptoing round trying to make sure nothing upsets Harriet and that she can't get hold of anything that she values to "protect" from the others.
Last night Dominic was playing with her and every time one of the other dogs went near, he praised her for not growling and that's when we realised how often she does in fact growl at the others - it has become such a part of life, telling her off for growling, that until Dominic praised her for NOT growling, we just hadn't realised how bad it had got.......
Please help because I really don't know what to do or how to stop this behaviour getting even worse - at the moment she is fine with people, and although she is sometimes grumpy when out and meeting other dogs it is usually only if she has a ball and is trying to stop other dogs from pinching it - but she only warns them off, nothing like the way she has been with Buffy and Poppy.
On another forum, it has been suggested already that maybe having bitches living together is not good, so I asked if being spayed could help. Any ideas on that too please????
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[Meerkat]

Penny - having harriet spayed may help but then may not, IMO spaying doesn't change the behaviour of a dog if this is a guarding issue, it may help if it is a hormonal issue but tbh who can tell as Harriet can't tell you as such.

The best way to go from here in my opinion is to get someone in that is a qualified behaviourist - I would also get Jean Dona;dsons 'Fight' book and read that

Don't leave it as it is as you will only be on tender hooks around the dogs and it could escalate if you don't get some help and you would never forgive yourself

Think I know of a fabby behaviourist down your way so I'll go off and look to see where they are located and PM you the details (over 30 years experience as a dog behaviourist and only uses positive methods - I have met her and by golly she sussed Fernie out in minutes, Funnily enough was only talking bout her to Jo G yesterday)

good luck hun and let us know how you get on :054::077:

[Fluffy]

AWW penny,what a terribly sad situation to be in,so very upsetting for you all,and of course you will be on tenterhooks thats no good for any of you,i,m not very good at typing all this sort of thing,i hope a behaviourist can really help sort it out for you,sending you loads of love and mega hugs xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[terri]

just wanted to say i'm thinking of you penny sweetheart....
and have pm'd you..
i would have wrote what i was going to say on here..but would have been a huge post back...
thinking of you..and hope you can get some answers...
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[MightyMouth]

I have had horrendous fights between Holly and my other girls so no........spaying solves nothing at all unless of course as Caroline says it is hormonal and what you describe definitely sounds more resource guarding. What a shame and how very sad that you find yourself in this postion, it cannot be easy. Big hugs for you xxx

[wendy]

I have no idea how you manage I sometimes think having one dog is difficult
I would think that squabbles and fights would occur when so many dogs live together
I am sure they would in the wild
what you do about it I have no idea so all I can do is wish you luck and hope that someone can help you

[Helen]

unfortunately in the wild they would fight to the death or the weaker would be thrown out of the pack - I think you should get in a behaviourist Penny - unfortunately when dogs are one sex and close in age then sometimes this can happen and sometimes there is NOTHING you can do to make them like each other. I hope that's not the case but you need to be prepared in case the only solution is rehoming one for the sake of it's happiness...

[Penelope]

I am so torn over this because most of the time, the dogs get on so well together..... However, on our walk this morning Harriet had a ball (Josie always has one and I sometimes give an extra one to the others as Josie won't share!!!!) Harriet got a bit protective, but I wasn't anxious because Buffy and Poppy are not interested in balls unless I actually give it to them, they never try and steal. However, Suki fancied playing ball so went to take it off Harriet. I honestly don't think Harriet realised who was trying to take it because she went for Suki - let's just say I don't think she will EVER do that again!!!!! Suki pinned her to the ground and really told her off - Harriet was cowering and really sorry for herself. No blood or anything - just lots of noise and that look from Suki that says I AM THE BOSS - DON'T MESS WITH ME!!!!!!!!
Trev has come up with a plan (we went out alone together this morning so we could talk about stuff) - he suggested that we separate all the dogs, bring in Harriet and just one other dog and feed the other dog on the floor right in front of Harriet - whilst holding Harriet of course. She will get mega praise for ignoring the eating dog in front of her and told off for any growls or lunges she makes. We will give it a go later when Trev is free to help me as it will be a 2 adult task I am sure!! I am going to see if I can get Jean Donaldson's books Fight and The Culture Clash as both have been recommended.....
Thanks everyone for caring enough to try and help. Someone suggested seeing if a friend could take Harriet for a while to see if she would be ok as an only dog - trouble is all my friend who like dogs already have one or more dogs, and all my other friends are not "doggy" people!!!!
Thanks again.
xxxx

[Foxy Roxy]

Hiya,

No advice really sorry. Just wanted to say thinking of you. Its so difficult when situations like this arise, it makes for such a tense household I find, which only makes matters worse - you're almost waiting for the behaviour to happen. When my Mum goes away we have her dogs to look after - 7 female dogs with no worries...except one - Roxy. I have found calming herbs help and am thinking of a DAP diffuser in the house. I do find that exercise helps, making sure Roxy has LOTS and LOTS of exercise. My Mum thinks that maybe there may have been lots of competition on Roxy's litter so she had to fight to get the food etc as she can be quite possessive over what is hers, she acts like a very spoilt child. She always wants what the other dogs have.

I'll put my thinking cap on and see if I can think of anything that may help. Although she can still be very difficult, we have turned quite a few corners with Roxy so I'll try and think of the things that have helped.

Hx

[Tanya]

Oh Penny so sorry to hear things haven't improved - I had a similar issue with Fargo and Louis to start with, which ended in a couple of fights, but there was always a trigger like fighting over a treat etc. I was just careful not to let anything happen that could set them off, but it's very hard with multiple dogs around. I was lucky and they settled down after a few months. I agree with the others that a behaviourist is the way to go.

Good luck and hope you can find a solution to this :075:

[Meerkat]

penny - i have spoken to Iz and she says deinately give bev a call (the link I gave you)

Please call her and tell her all and ask her advice